THE POWER OF GOD
Even the DAMNED can save in the NAME OF JESUS
Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light

Joined: 08 Sep 2004 Posts: 255 Location: Tallinn, Estonia

SC,

I fail to see your arguments for assertion that by declaring Mary Immaculate Catholic Church denies her free will. So I quit.

May God bless you.

Tom

Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 350

Hi Tom,
Just to let you know you have a true friend in the Protestant Church, I don't believe Mary was born in sin either. It was obvious that God saw her as a special women, who most likely had obeyed God from first light of moral agency just as I believe Enoch and Elijah most likely had done, and was most likely sinless when the angel came to her with the sin shattering news! "Mary, God has chosen you to bear the The Savior of the world!" She was indeed blessed, as Elizabeth, filled with the Holy Spirit proclaimed,. “Lu 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
42 And she spake out with a loud voice, and said, Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb!”
Thank the Lord for the pure lives of Mary, and I believe Joseph as well. If some feel it is heretical to believe such, count me in with those that believe it. I always liked your company Tom

_________________
For the sake of finding truth,
Stephen

Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 2

Well, then, let's make this a 2 on 2.

I'm writing a letter to an RCC priest with questions about the RCC beliefs, here's what I have so far just about Mary:

MARY
Q: Why is it Mary's name is mentioned 10 times in a Hail Mary for every one "Our Father" when her name is mentioned once in the New Testament for every 50 times that Christ's is mentioned?

Q: If Luke 2:43 means Mary was the mother of the Lord doesn't Galatians mean James was the brother of the Lord by the same reasoning?

Q: In Matthew 12:46-50, how can brethren mean disciples when verse 50 contrasts them with His disciples? And doesn't verse 50 show that the only family position a believer can not have with Him is that of Father?

Q: In Luke 11:27-28 doesn't Christ say Mary's body gives her no greater a blessing than what any believer can have through keeping God's Word?

Q: Why must any but the Jews, who are concerned with signs of the Messiah, know Mary's name, for doesn't Acts 4:12 show we need to know Christ's name alone to be saved?

Q: Isn't John 2:1-7 representing Christ denying Mary as having parental authority rather than affirming it? In verse 4 we see Him not obeying (not disrespect) simply because she asked Him, because she asked Him as having that authority, it was when she set it aside and said the one commandment we have from her in the Bible, "Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it" and acknowledged His authority that He complied.

Q: In Revelation 2 women are mentioned, one the woman clothed with 12 stars, the sun and the moon (Revelation 12), and the other the harlot of Babylon (Revelation 17). If we are told in Revelation 17:18 that the harlot is symbolic of the great city "which reigneth over the kings of the earth," why then should the other woman not be symbolic as well? It would seem she is tied to Israel for in Genesis 37:9-10 we see Joseph's dream of his brothers as 11 stars (he would make the 12th) who would seem to be the 12 tribes of Israel, and his parents as the sun and the moon.

Q: Why did Mary have to be sinless to bear Christ instead of simply being a virgin? If God was powerful enough to keep Mary "pure" then wouldn't the same God be powerful enough for Jesus to be born without being infected with sin as well? If Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to be holy then wouldn't it mean that Mary's mother had to be holy as well and so on and so forth all the way back to Eve?

Q: How can Mary be a co-redemptress as Pope Benedict XV said while Colossians 2:10 is true? According to Philippians 2:10-11, she too must bow the knee to Christ, how then can she be a co-redemptress?

Joined: 18 Feb 2005 Posts: 2

Note the 2nd to last question.

Why did Mary have to be sinless to bear Christ instead of simply being a virgin? If God was powerful enough to keep Mary "pure" then wouldn't the same God be powerful enough for Jesus to be born without being infected with sin as well? If Mary had to be sinless for Jesus to be holy then wouldn't it mean that Mary's mother had to be holy as well and so on and so forth all the way back to Eve?

Yes, Mary was blessed to be used by God as a doorway for Him to enter into the world but if she had refused to be used as such He'd have just found someone else as SC pointed out already.

As for Mary being sinless, how can anyone but God be sinless? Christ Himself said there is none good but God. Just because we have the same word interpreted perfect doesn't mean it means perfect in the sense we think of. David was said to have a perfect heart in 1 Kings 11:4 yet his sins were great.

We interpret the word in James 2:19-20 as faith yet we see from verse 19 that it is meant in the sense of intellectual orthodoxy, or belief that there is one God, and not as Paul uses it in Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 10:8-10, or trust in Christ alone to the extent of full commitment to Him.

Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1

The answer to your question scripturally is simple. God says that He controls everything and there is nothing done without His approval and there is no possible way to frustrate any purpose He sets out to do. If Mary had said no and God wanted her to bear Christ she would have beared Christ regardless of her saying no. The proper question to ask is if Mary had said no would God have made her bear Christ anyways or would He have waited until He changed her heart, like Jonah for instance, before concieving Christ within her. Regardless if God choose her to do something she WILL do it and that is that.

Joined: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 7

Prove it, we may need to start a new thread, but claiming it true doesn't make it true. You are attacking a Group of people becuase you can't seem to reconcile God's sovereignty and man's ability to make decisions. Please support your arguments.

THE POWER OF GOD Even the DAMNED can save in the NAME OF JESUS Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light

THE POWER OF GOD
Even the DAMNED can save in the NAME OF JESUS
Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light